Re: ::: vuaskari.com ::: Re: (VU-Study-Corner) Dr. Naveed Malik's reply about paper pattern

Here is the answer that why today I said to them when my degree is complete.

I studied 8 semesters in VU and I never looked to past papers and MCQs. I prepared whole course from handouts and more importantly, I use to study non-theoretical subjects from Recommended books. No semester passed in my whole 8 semesters in which in each semester I didn't study 2 to 3 recommended books.

Secondly, your so called rattalization cannot work in Mathematics, Accounting, Stats etc. etc. Will it?

Regarding clearing of concepts. It is my own experience in VU that you can grasp the concepts more if you solve long questions more and more. I thank God that I did not solve MCQs in my whole 8 semesters. I solved long questions and based on my knowledge of long questions, I was able to do MCQs as well.

Secondly, do you see result of students now a days posted on groups?

When I see result of other students, I notice that getting  3.0 CGPA is NOTHING. Many students get 3.0 CGPA with much little effort. This didn't happen with long paper pattern.

What will you say about MGT201 subject. I specifically wroote to rector about it in my email. Do you have answer to that question ? Why that happens?

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM, mc100404808 Madeeha Batool <mc100404808@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

Mr. Umair may i ask u Y r u late in giving these suggestions when ur Masters is complete???secondly VU cant b compared wid othr universities on the ground of paper pattern bcz it has separate n advanced paper pattern. Typical long questions r nt guarantee that ur concepts r clear, dont gv it conservative outlook. V hv 2 attempt our paper on computer. Drawing a single diagram or writing a single formula takes time, not like a paper-writing in other universities. If its so easy 2 pass, then y so many students get low CGPA? 2ndly assignments, quizzes, GDBs, project n presentations r v helpful in clearing one's concepts. There is much more 2 learn in VU, if a student is hard working, not like u who says 2 attempt lengthy questions like ratta lization is the best qualification. Come out of this traditional pattern. Im much satisfied wid VU pattern n i hv learnt a lot.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 8:17 AM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear, you are right.

Many MCQs are full of concepts

But Only who will solve those MCQs himself/herself will have good knowledge of that subject. But most students memorize MCQs from past papers. They aren't getting their concepts clear by such method.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 6:19 PM, mian saad <ihatelove88@gmail.com> wrote:

first of all to all of you.. please stop blaming each other and doing or sayig bad to each other.. umair you have some issues about paper pattern.. n you raised voice at your end.. i appreciate. n i m agree with you too that you jst asked suggestions about it .. most of points you raised are true too. but i wud like to add that this mcqs pattern is  much much better than other patterns. coz most of questions are full of concepts.. you cant just solve them by off eyes of yours..  

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 4:13 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

Stupid man Can you develop a single php/asp site or VB software?

Even you are BS CS ??

Invest you time to get knowledge in your filed.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 4:08 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

You have not even knowledge equal to 10% of USA/UK and OPEN BOOK EXAMS

WOW what a good choice.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:

I think, Vu should also start OPEN BOOK EXAMS because this paper pattern is also followed by many universities in USA and UK.

What you say?

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:51 PM, mc110200415 Muhammad Habib Ur Rehman <mc110200415@vu.edu.pk> wrote:

I Think you also need to contact USA/UK universities where this exam method is applied and working long Ago.

Lot of engineers/doctors/ programmers passed their exam with this method.

Even some VU Teachers also passed their exam with MCQs method from that univeristies.

No??

Open your own university

Final think That I wanna ask, If VU follow your instruction you will be the only student of this university.

Because log of professional/students only get admit due to advanced method of education not due to advice of brother like you.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Muhammad Umair <muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear, first of all you can't blame me that today I did it when my study program is over.

You know, I never looked towards past papers and MCQs in my whole 8 semesters.

I am a hardworking student. I used to learn whole course from handouts, and recommended books. I studied 2 to 3 recommended books in each semester. 

So, you can say that today I have asked to change paper pattern, but it was not because of the fact that I enjoyed MCQs pattern and then at the end of study, I am requesting to change it. 

and yes, late change is still better than no change.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Agent of change <agent.pak.youth@gmail.com> wrote:

I am fully agree with you. We should all press the university for increase
of standard.

Here are some of my observations.

I am fully agree with umair that students here conduct conferences and
collect the mcqs and  mug them. Based upon that they acquire A grades then
they copy paste results on internet and brag about their success. But in
reality if we ask them to write or answer some lengthy question these so
called champions even can not write a sentence of its own. We all have seen
Gulabee urdu across the net that is trade mark of VU students. Have you ever
seen any such thing on net from any other university? I think never.


you all might be familiar with those emails and requests "please do my quiz
also. or send me master file for the quiz".


Umair are you still studying with VU ?  It seems you enjoyed this privileged
system and now when someone else's turn came, to have the party all of
sudden you start raising all these concerns.

anyway what so ever it is .. we should always keep trying to fix for the
system. late is better then never.

Be Pakistani and keep saying System kharab haaaaaaa




On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Muhammad Umair <
muhammad.umair.491@gmail.com> wrote:

> Assalam o Alaikum
>
> Dr. Naveed didn't agree too much with me that change of paper pattern lead
> to degradation of VU. But, I did give him suggestions about paper pattern.
>
> Here was what I wrote to him about paper pattern.
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sir, please do something of this exam pattern. MCQs paper pattern is not a
> good paper pattern.
>
> Students get too much marks in this subjects. Too many even though they
> don't know that particular subject that well. It happened with me on a
> number of occasions too.
>
> Sir, I will give you a little example which I also give to my fellow
> students to tell them that MCQs paper pattern is not a good paper pattern
> and we get more marks than actually we deserve.
>
> Sir, I took admission in VU in Fall 2007 semester. Sir, at that time, I
> observed by seeing results of different subjects that how much difficult or
> easy a particular subject is. I saw the final term result of Financial
> Management (MGT201) in Spring 2008 semester and noted that there were almost
> 70% students who failed in this subject. No other subject had higher
> percentage than this. I considered this subject the most difficult subject
> that was being taught at VU. And I remember highest marks in that subject in
> that semester were 77 or 78. But no one got A grade. This happened when only
> 10-15% portion was of MCQs and rest of the questions were
> long/theoretical/numerical questions.
>
> Sir, when I see the result of this subject now a days of other students.
> They get A grade very very easily. How it is  possible? Also, you can check
> the percentage of students who fail now in this subject and compare it with
> percentage of students who failed when there was long questions paper
> pattern. You will come up with a huge difference.
>
> I only talked about Financial Management above. However, you can also
> compare percentages of other subjects that I considered too much difficult
> by seeing their results. Some of them are Research Methods, Assembly
> Lanauge, Statistics, Calculus, and many others.
>
> Sir, students see past papers and just memorize MCQs (most of students),
> attend the exam and manage to pass it.
>
> Sir, no one can at least memorize long questions, especially numerical
> questions can't be memorized. One has to practice them to learn.
> Furthermore, luck can work in MCQs but not in long questions. One can tick
> mark any option of MCQ and that option can turn out to be correct. But to
> write answers of numerical questions one has to practice and learn.
>
> Sir, I have even seen such students who don't know how to compute
> derivatives and integration in Calculus and still they pass MTH101 subject.
> This never happened in long questions paper pattern.
>
> Sir, I have seen such students who don't know how to make a balance sheet
> or profit and loss account and still they manage to pass MGT101 Financial
> Accounting.
>
> same can be observed with other subjects too...
>
> Sir, MCQs also affected some of my subjects. I got more marks in some
> subjects when I didn't knew subject that very well.
>
> I hope, you will look into my suggestions about exam pattern.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> and see his reply..
>
> Umair,
>
> You have made your case quite strongly. I will look into the
> statistics for the various courses you have mentioned. Changing the
> proportion of MCQs vs Essay type questions is very doable and will not
> cause any problems (except perhaps, a longer grading time).
>
> Please also let me have your comments about the long/essay/numerical
> questions. Are they up to the mark or are they too easy also?
>
>
> Then I replied as follows... (check my suggestion about the fact that
> students don't cheat in assignments)
>
> Sir, here are my comments about Long, theoretical and/or numerical
> questions.
>
>
> Sir, I will talk about such questions that are given both in assignments
> and exams.
>
>
> Let's talk about assignments first. Sir, I have observed that many
> instructors don't provide such questions in assignments that can judge the
> ability of students. They give quite simple questions on occasions. Sir,
> when I studied CS410 (Visual Programming) course two semesters ago. It was
> second assignment (I think) of this course, instructor gave a question to
> write a program and that program was NOTHING. Sir, we were given to write a
> program of which a similar coded example was given in handouts and you know
> what we had to do of ourselves to complete that assignment. We were just
> required to change the text in double quotes "Hello World" to "Student Name:
> this and VUID: this". Furthermore, most of assignments in that semester
> contained questions in which we were asked to write answers to theoretical
> questions instead of programs. Sir, theory does have importance in
> Programming, but this does not mean that we should give all importance to
> theory and very little importance to programming.
>
>
> Secondly Sir, I have a suggestion about assignments of some subjects. Sir,
> there is a homework helping website of U.S.A. www.cramster.com. It has
> been more than a year that I help that community in their questions related
> to Mathematics. Sir, having spent much time on that website, I noted many
> things of U.S.A.'s education that I think can be applied without any
> difficulty to our VU education as well.
>
>
> Sir, once I saw a question posted on that website which was in somewhat
> following format.
>
>
> Solve the following system of Linear Equations.
>
>
> *x*1 + *x*2 = 5
>
> 2*x*1 + 3*x*2 = *a    *(where *a *is the last digit of your student ID)
>
>
> Sir, VU instructors can also ask such questions in assignments (to avoid
> copy among students). This may not work in all subjects, but this will
> definitely work in many subjects like in Calculus, Differential Equations,
> Linear Algebra, Numerical Analysis, Discrete Maths, Statistics etc. etc.
> This will also work in some selective topics of Data Structures, Algorithms,
> Automata. I can't say about MGT courses but those who are expert in MGT
> subjects can definitely tell you whether such approach will work in such
> subjects or not.
>
>
> Sir, let's come to such type of questions in exams. Sir, I am much
> satisfied with long questions asked in exams. But, I noted from past two or
> three semesters that in many subjects long questions of 10 marks have
> disappeared and they have been replaced by questions of 5 marks. I think,
> long questions of 10 marks need to come back in exams too.
>
>
> Sir, you are right that increasing number of long questions will definitely
> require more time to check answers. I think the only choice for VU will be
> to increase the number of tutors.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Umair
>
>
>
> Fellows, what you think now about paper pattern? Dr. naveed malik is
> looking into statistics that I mentioned in my email about MGT201 course and
> also many others. It is damn true.
>
>
> I hope, we will see long paper pattern again in VU.
>
>
> [image: happy.gif]
>
>
>
>
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